shoals of grover norquist. >> congresswoman, some democrats are saying that this is not the situation, it's not going to be mano, as we've been saying. what do you know about that in terms of how they are negotiating and is it the best for them to be one on one? >> well, i think it does not hurt for them to be one on one. i have to be concerned about what the leaders are saying about being excluded. but if we take this moment and if this is what they have decided to do, let them go in there and say something to each other, that they feel they cannot say with anyone else in the room and see if that's going to move this forward. i don't think it hurts to have them do one on one for a part of this negotiation. >> and as we get to the negotiations, what is the give and take. if speaker john boehner is, as our political director chuck todd says, ready to eat their own on the tax rate, do you go for 37 instead of 39.5 or 35? on what entitlements do you believe democrats are ready to eat their own? >> well, first of all, on the tax rate, i do think that this is some talk somewhere between 37 and